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Post by formerfarmgirl on Feb 20, 2013 8:30:50 GMT -5
I am trying the starter for the first time....How do you dechlorinate your water to use in it (if you have had to)? Let it sit out or boil it (and how long)? I don't want to waste the flour, so I am hoping this will work. Also, Serene's recipe tips say to treat the starter as a pet and "clean its home once a month." What does this mean? Is it kept outside the refrigerator? It says to continue to feed it once a day, but don't you have to swap bowls or containers each time you feed it?
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Post by lanisanford on Feb 20, 2013 12:36:36 GMT -5
I'm curious about some of this too. I have made bread twice and so far I'm still keeping it on the counter, but it gets a hard crust on top each day. I have been feeding it 1c water and 1c rye and then putting it in a new bowl when I bake each week.
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Post by christineg on Feb 20, 2013 15:44:02 GMT -5
I have been making gorgeous sourdough bread for a few months now (using a mature starter shared with me by a friend) and I never bother to dechlorinate my water. I just use it out of the tap and have no problems. We are on town water and our water can sometimes be a bit chlorine-y, but it is working very well for us.
With regards to the crusting, I learned to make sourdough from a friend who learned from an artisan baker and she taught us to keep our starter in a plastic container (like a yogurt container) with a lid that made it basically airtight. This was in stark contrast to what I'd heard before. My starter is lovely smelling, just a little bit sour, but nice sour. I keep two starters -- one on the counter that I feed daily and one in the fridge that I feed every few days or up to a week. I don't bake bread every day, but probably 4 times a week or so.
To keep my starter nice, I find I actually need to change its home every week or two, but my friend says she forgets for a month and it is fine.
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talyq
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by talyq on Feb 20, 2013 16:49:21 GMT -5
I also have a question about sour-dough. I have a sour-dough starter that is over a year old now. But I had started it with the help of a little fresh yeast and a little sugar a year ago, because we live in a new house and I didn' t have success with just catching wild yeast (and nobody hear had one). Is it OK to use this starter? It's alive and smells mildly sour.
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Post by formerfarmgirl on Feb 20, 2013 21:59:02 GMT -5
Thank you, Christine! What is the difference between your counter starter and the one in the fridge? Do you keep them both in plastic containers, covered tightly? How much starter do you save back when you bake? And finally, just to verify, you don't have to put it in a freshly sanitized container every time you feed it (every day)? Serene's recipe tells us to do this. Or is it just when creating the first starter? Oh, and do you use spelt flour, or have you used wheat? I am wondering about the proportions, as hers just tells how much for rye and spelt. Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am just so glad to find someone who knows about this! Thanks again!
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Post by christineg on Feb 20, 2013 22:11:09 GMT -5
I'm off to bed, but I'll answer your questions in the morning when I can give you a better answer. In the meantime, I would suggest poking around www.thefreshloaf.com which has loads of information.
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Post by lanisanford on Feb 21, 2013 0:02:00 GMT -5
With regards to the crusting, I learned to make sourdough from a friend who learned from an artisan baker and she taught us to keep our starter in a plastic container (like a yogurt container) with a lid that made it basically airtight. This was in stark contrast to what I'd heard before. My starter is lovely smelling, just a little bit sour, but nice sour. Thank you! I'm going to try this with mine. I also use tap water and it seems to be working fine.
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Post by christineg on Feb 21, 2013 8:17:56 GMT -5
What is the difference between your counter starter and the one in the fridge? Do you keep them both in plastic containers, covered tightly? There is almost no difference. I keep the one in the fridge a little stiffer than the one on the counter (ie. a little less water to flour). I just keep two so that I will have a backup if I ever screw up one or if it ever catches something unwanted. The artisan baker said that stiffer starter is better for the fridge or for starter you aren't going to be using as often. I think the lower water content slows down how fast the starter eats up the food, but I don't know for certain the reason. I'll talk about proportions in a minute. I keep them both in large yogurt containers with the lids that came with them and I shut the lids all the way. How much starter do you save back when you bake? And finally, just to verify, you don't have to put it in a freshly sanitized container every time you feed it (every day)? I keep back about 75-100 grams of starter in each container, but as little as 25 grams. After I take out what I will be using (or discarding), I feed it right away. I don't put it in a fresh container for every feeding. I would do this for sure if I was trying to make a starter from scratch. I only change the container every week or two or whenever I think it needs it. If the starter starts to have a vinegary smell, this is generally because the starter is a bit underfed. However, I also find that this is a clue for me to clean the container. I feed my starter every 12-24 hours. If I am on the ball, I feed twice a day, but more often, it is once a day or every 18 hours. Oh, and do you use spelt flour, or have you used wheat? I am wondering about the proportions, as hers just tells how much for rye and spelt. I use only wheat. (The artisan baker suggests feeding the starter with unbleached bread flour, unbleached all-purpose or hard whole wheat flour. I admit I feed it unbleached bread, but I also feed it whole wheat. My recipes don't call for as much starter as Serene's do, so they end up almost all whole wheat.) I have had excellent results with this. I have tried a bit of rye, but I am still newish to sourdough, so I haven't branched out a lot because what I am doing is working so well. I had tried over and over to make halfway decent sourdough in the past, but only turned out icky, sour-tasting bricks. Now, I am making delicious loaves that rise up just like non-sourdough. I would highly recommend trying to get a starter from someone who has a mature one to start off. Do you know of an artisan bakery nearby that might share? It is really no trouble for them. You would only need a tablespoon or so from them. In terms of feeding: When it is time to feed, I turn on my digital scale and put my yogurt container on the scale to see how much starter I have. I know that my container weighs 24 grams without the lid, so I subtract this from my total. If I have 125 grams, then, I know my starter is around 100g. Now, depending on when I last fed the starter, I decide how much to feed it. If it has been 24 hours, I feed it 100% of the weight in flour and water. So, for 100g of starter, I would feed it 100g water and 100g flour. Stir, put on the lid and that's it. With the one in the fridge, I would still feed it 100g flour, but skimp on the water a bit - say 85g. If it has only been 12 hours, I would feed it 50% of its total amount. So, I would give it 50g flour and 50g water. I much prefer to use a digital scale, so I can use weights as opposed to quantity. This is how the pros do it, and I find it gives more accurate results that are easier to duplicate. Also, this way I don't need to be fluffing up my flour or worrying about whether the flour is more or less wet from the humidity in the air. I have had some wonderful success with the method at this site: www.sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=100percentwholewheat My loaves are beautiful and delicious. I haven't totally converted my starter to whole wheat, but it is partly whole wheat and much of the flour is added later, anyway. I am going to try to do a whole wheat starter and I think it will turn out well. I find I do like it with the little bit of optional gluten flour that they list in the recipe. I think the best part of my sourdough journey has been finding out that good sourdough is actually possible. I have had so many failures in the past that I thought people who say they make sourdough must just like yucky bread or, if they had decent stuff, that they must be spiking it with yeast. (I don't think there is anything at all wrong or unhealthy about yeast -- just wanted to master sourdough for the reduced carb aspect as well as just because I LOVE to make bread and like the creative side of it.) I have been learning a lot from these two books: "The Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book" by Laurel Robertson Peter Reinhardt's Whole Grain Breads I would highly recommend both of them. Perhaps look for them at your library or put them on a birthday list. The second one deals extensively with sourdough bread methodology and the first one is just a fabulous general whole grain bread book that offers a whole lot of handholding on what the bread should look like at each stage. One thing I have learned from the books is to take their suggestions seriously. If they say to heat my water to x temperature, I take out my digital thermometer and do so. If they say to leave my dough to sit for a certain period of time, I do it. I have learned loads from reading how the experts do things and am very excited about the results. I hope that helps and I'd be happy to try to answer more questions, though I am a bit of an amateur to sourdough. Anyway, I must be doing something right because we have amazing bread.
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Post by formerfarmgirl on Feb 21, 2013 10:03:04 GMT -5
Wow--Thank you for all the info and suggestions! I will have to get reading:) I have made bread many times, but never sourdough. This is so different!
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Post by ma2girls on Feb 21, 2013 10:17:49 GMT -5
I have made sourdough in the past with spelt and had success. I just use the same amount as I would yeast and then when it seems a bit wet I would add some extra flour on those days. Kind of a "feel" thing. Spelt is more porous then wheat as it is quite absorbent so you may need to add a little extra sometimes. Good luck!
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Post by christineg on Feb 21, 2013 10:53:56 GMT -5
formerfarmgirl, particularly if you follow the recipe at the link I provided, I think you might find that it is a lot closer to making yeast bread than you thought it was. If you are like me, sourdough bread in the past involved scraping a hunk of sticky dough into a bread pan and hoping for the best. When I make sourdough now, the dough I rise at the end is virtually identical in feel to yeasted dough ready for its final rising.
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Post by formerfarmgirl on Feb 28, 2013 16:57:46 GMT -5
That is good to know because Serene's recipe tells you it should be gooey, but I think it came out too moist when it should have been done. The outside was done, but the inside did not seem to be.
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Post by ma2girls on Feb 28, 2013 20:16:42 GMT -5
Serene also has a youtube video of her making this so you can see what hers really looks like. Not sure if that was already mentioned somewhere...
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Post by formerfarmgirl on Mar 5, 2013 21:23:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the youtube suggestion. That was helpful! I still think my loaves are coming out too moist inside....I haven't had time to do all the necessary reading on the subject yet and I know it takes a while to get the hang of it.
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Post by lanisanford on Mar 5, 2013 21:52:04 GMT -5
I hav been using the new bohemian rye recipe from the site linked and its turning out great!
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